{"id":9726,"date":"2025-08-07T21:25:39","date_gmt":"2025-08-07T11:25:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/?p=9726"},"modified":"2025-08-08T02:07:40","modified_gmt":"2025-08-07T16:07:40","slug":"dialogue-and-reflection-on-the-existence-of-god%e5%85%b3%e4%ba%8e%e4%b8%8a%e5%b8%9d%e6%98%af%e5%90%a6%e5%ad%98%e5%9c%a8%e7%9a%84%e5%af%b9%e8%af%9d%e5%8f%8a%e6%80%9d%e8%80%83","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/dialogue-and-reflection-on-the-existence-of-god%e5%85%b3%e4%ba%8e%e4%b8%8a%e5%b8%9d%e6%98%af%e5%90%a6%e5%ad%98%e5%9c%a8%e7%9a%84%e5%af%b9%e8%af%9d%e5%8f%8a%e6%80%9d%e8%80%83\/","title":{"rendered":"Dialogue and Reflection on the Existence of God\u5173\u4e8e\u4e0a\u5e1d\u662f\u5426\u5b58\u5728\u7684\u5bf9\u8bdd\u53ca\u601d\u8003"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

(Note: \u201cKoala\u201d is my online name)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Let me start with a dialogue, followed by my analysis.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Some people say: \u201cWe must believe in the Creator.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Others ask: \u201cThen where did the Creator come from?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Response:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

1) The reason the belief in a Creator is credible is because the non-existence of a Creator is even less credible; <\/p>\n\n\n\n

2) Believing in the Creator implies either: \u2003a) giving up the pursuit of where the Creator came from; or \u2003b) accepting that humans cannot know where the Creator came from\u2014 otherwise one is putting oneself on equal footing with the Creator, which contradicts point 1, unless the Creator actively reveals Himself to humanity; <\/p>\n\n\n\n

3) As human beings, accepting that some things are unknowable and some questions unaskable comes from the inevitable recognition of our smallness and limitations in the universe and in existence; <\/p>\n\n\n\n

4) There is indeed credible and worthwhile evidence of divine revelation (e.g., Bacon\u2019s \u201ctwo books\u201d\u2014the book of nature and the book of scripture).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Koala:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Here are my responses to the above points:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

1) The credibility or incredibility of a belief has nothing to do with the object of belief, but with the level of confidence held by the believer or non-believer. So comparing \u201ccredible\u201d and \u201cless credible\u201d is meaningless\u2014it does not concern the object of belief. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

2) The Creator never stated that the created beings are incapable of questioning the Creator. Such questioning doesn\u2019t mean one is on equal footing with the Creator (just as a son questioning his father doesn\u2019t make them peers). <\/p>\n\n\n\n

3) I agree with this point. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

4) I have yet to find a book that convinces me\u2014I hope those books will be exceptions. \ud83d\ude2c<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not believing is totally normal. But the evidence is right there. Not finding a convincing book is also normal\u2014because you don\u2019t want to read them, and even if you did, you wouldn\u2019t believe. But perhaps one day, you\u2019ll reach a point where disbelief is no longer an option.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The same book can feel totally different depending on the \u201cbackground book\u201d you bring to it\u2014shaped by your family, upbringing, and culture. It\u2019s not just a matter of reason or logic\u2014it\u2019s (if anything) a matter of spirituality and insight.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That said, change can happen quickly\u2014especially during major life events. The relationship between reason, will, and emotion is deeply complex.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In the end, people only read the books they want to read, seek the answers they want to seek, and believe what they want to believe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But \u201cunexpected things\u201d do happen. This is true for everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Koala:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s sophistry \ud83d\ude2c<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m certainly not someone who only reads books they like. In fact, it\u2019s the opposite\u2014over the past ten years, many people have recommended books of this type to me, and I ended up dismantling their arguments. I am actually hoping to find a book that can persuade me, one that changes my view. I genuinely look forward to that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m not trying to debate\u2014just offering a few thoughts, for your reference. \ud83d\ude04<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You\u2019re a superman, admirable. \ud83d\ude2c<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But perhaps that\u2019s only because the standard isn\u2019t high enough.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

My judgment here applies to all humans\u2014no fundamental exceptions. Just a matter of degree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

No intention to belittle anyone. Just stating my general observation of humanity, including self-reflection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Koala:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We don\u2019t fully know each other\u2019s faith journeys. I\u2019m not an atheist. In fact, I used to be a lukewarm Christian\u2014from a Christian perspective, I probably wouldn\u2019t be considered one now. One of the most common mistakes Christians make is trying to prove their faith with evidence. But faith is a choice, an attitude. What can be proven is no longer up to you whether to believe. \ud83d\ude1c<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Actually, I shared this mostly to clarify some linguistic and logical issues.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s not about who believes what.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

If you are at least open to the possibility that a Creator exists, or don\u2019t consider it outright nonsense, then you should not (or cannot) ask \u201cwho created the Creator?\u201d or \u201cwhere did the Creator come from?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Because asking such questions as a human being (i.e., not the Creator) violates the shared definition of \u201cCreator\u201d and the foundational relational implication between Creator and humanity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Knowledge and belief have a deeply complex relationship.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Habermas\u2019 2019 book spends over 900 pages discussing it. \ud83d\ude0a<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Glad to know you have a foundation for belief.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Some things can be slowly explored over time. Faith can\u2019t be persuaded purely by reason, but it can be shared and discussed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang Jun: \ud83e\udd1d\ud83e\udd1d This question gets asked repeatedly, and I want to offer a reasonably precise response.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\n\n\n

My Reflection:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To begin, let\u2019s make one thing clear:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Academic discourse and daily religious experience are not always aligned.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There are two main reasons:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Our energy and capacity are limited. We cannot wait until we\u2019ve figured everything out before we begin to live or establish our faith. Human reason is limited. Therefore, we cannot live entirely in a rational world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To this day, I haven\u2019t found a single book that convinces me\u2014rationally\u2014that God exists.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The above dialogue is more of a casual exchange than a rigorous discussion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Still, we can see that Zhang Jun\u2019s reasoning for the existence of God is not rigorous\u2014or could even be considered sophistry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That said, I agree with his final point: faith cannot be fully persuaded through reason alone. That\u2019s precisely my point\u2014God\u2019s existence cannot be proven through reason.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But this undermines Zhang Jun\u2019s original argument at the beginning of the dialogue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Over the years, I\u2019ve met many Christians, some of them highly educated, even with doctoral degrees in theology.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Many recommended books to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Every time I read one, I regretted it\u2014because the logic was flawed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Books of this kind often bring up Einstein to prove their points, claiming that Einstein also believed in God. But in fact, the God Einstein believed in was the kind referred to by Spinoza, not a human-like God\u2014such as Jesus Christ. Personally, I also believe that the existence of God is quite likely, and the God I\u2019m referring to here is the same kind of God that Einstein spoke of.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Another common example is that some physicists or mathematicians believe in God. But this does not prove the existence of God; it only shows that these individuals have personally managed to reconcile their belief in God with their academic fields. Their knowledge of mathematics or physics, in itself, does not constitute evidence for the existence of God. There is a clear distinction between science as an institution and the individual beliefs of scientists.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Many such books remain stuck at the level of these two examples\u2014Einstein, or other God-believing mathematicians and physicists. Rationally speaking, this is hardly worth refuting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s not that I have a bias against belief in God. Quite the opposite \u2014 I\u2019m curious, hopeful to be convinced, even eager to believe in God.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But most of these conversations end like the one above\u2014with the other party shifting toward emotional appeals.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s okay too, as I stated earlier\u2014academic discussion and religious practice don\u2019t always overlap.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Churches are also secular spaces\u2014gathering points for communities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You don\u2019t need a PhD in theology to believe in God.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

All the Christians I\u2019ve met over the years have been incredibly kind \u2014 and this puzzles me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Christian lifestyles not only haven\u2019t gone out of date in modern society; they\u2019ve become even more resilient. Whether in families or nations, many underlying conflicts find partial answers in Christian teachings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Emotionally, I accept Christianity. But rationally, the doubts remain unresolved.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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\u8003\u62c9\uff1a\u4f60\u8fd9\u662f\u8be1\u8fa9[\u5472\u7259]\u6211\u80af\u5b9a\u4e0d\u662f\u4f60\u8bf4\u7684\u90a3\u79cd\u53ea\u8bfb\u81ea\u5df1\u559c\u6b22\u7684\u4e66\u3002\u4e8b\u5b9e\u6b63\u597d\u76f8\u53cd\uff0c\u8fc7\u53bb\u5341\u591a\u5e74\u6709\u5f88\u591a\u4eba\u7ed9\u6211\u63a8\u8350\u8fd9\u7c7b\u4e66\uff0c\u6700\u540e\u90fd\u628a\u4ed6\u4eec\u9a73\u5f97\u54d1\u53e3\u65e0\u8a00\u3002\u6211\u6070\u6070\u662f\u975e\u5e38\u60f3\u9047\u5230\u8fd9\u6837\u4e00\u672c\uff0c\u80fd\u591f\u8bf4\u670d\u6211\u7684\u4e66\uff0c\u6539\u53d8\u6211\u7684\u770b\u6cd5\uff0c\u8fd9\u662f\u6211\u975e\u5e38\u671f\u5f85\u7684\u4e8b\u60c5\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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\n\n\n\n

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<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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(Note: \u201cKoala\u201d is my online name) Let me start with a dialogue, followed by my analysis. Zhang Jun: Some people … More<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":17897162,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"image","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_geoff_meta_description_en":"","_geoff_meta_description_zh":"","_wpcom_ai_launchpad_first_post":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[780925312],"tags":[1098,401,7816,1868,116,9581,246769,6972,892779],"class_list":["post-9726","post","type-post","status-publish","format-image","hentry","category-reflections","tag-culture","tag-faith","tag-god","tag-philosophy","tag-religion","tag-9581","tag-246769","tag-6972","tag-892779","post_format-post-format-image","","has-post-thumbnail","fallback-thumbnail"],"translatepress_titles":{"en_AU":"Dialogue and Reflection on the Existence of God\u5173\u4e8e\u4e0a\u5e1d\u662f\u5426\u5b58\u5728\u7684\u5bf9\u8bdd\u53ca\u601d\u8003"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_likes_enabled":false,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p1ar9H-2wS","jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9726","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17897162"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9726"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9726\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":9740,"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9726\/revisions\/9740"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9726"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9726"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/geoffreychen.com\/zh\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9726"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}